FULL GOETIA PROJECT: What do you think?

FULL GOETIA PROJECT: What do you think? (http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=3782)

YHVH 06-17-2004 07:48 PM

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FULL GOETIA PROJECT: What do you think?

Well, for a moment just suppose that the experimenter...
- Is a BIT advanced
- has performed evocations many times, succesfully
- is adept at invoking divine authority through MP, Borness ritual etc

Would you consider doing this experiment?
FULL GOETIA PROJECT
Time: 13 days
Objective:

1st day: Evoke physically to the four quarters the four chief spirits of the goetia (ruling the east, south, west and north) AT THE SAME TIME using 4 triangles and make them take an oath similar to the one from the Abramelin operation, that of complete obedience*.
2nd day to last day: Evoke all 72 spirits of the goetia physically in groups of 6 every day.
For example, at the 13th day you would AT THE SAME TIME evoke spirits 67-72 by employing 6 triangles in the east.


* The oath of the chief spirits would include, among other things, the sending of any subordinate spirits immediately and the promise never to harm you in any way. The oath of the 72 spirits would include, among other things, COMPLETE and quick obedience just by looking at the sigil and wishing something in everyday life, without the circle if needed, as well as the promise not to harm you in any way.




THIS may sound risky and difficult, but do you think it is POSSIBLE?


[To what end? Experimentation, of course! Let's see the bloody limits of evocation! [:)]]

jackdirt 06-17-2004 09:03 PM

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I know a guy who summoned all the goetic spirits in the course of like a month. Along with the other major daemons such as Samael etc.. anyway he said the most he ever summoned in a day were 3 spirits and he said he wouldnt recommend that to anyone. Two a day was fine but three was over the top.

Anyway he is in the process of writing a book on what you really need to summon the demons along with an account of his experiences, but all he did when he summoned them and ask their names in hebrew and then let them go.

He is in the O.T.O. I think second degree at the moment anyway I wouldnt recommend doing it in 13 days. But if u are hell bent enuf on it then go for it.

I AM 06-17-2004 09:41 PM

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I think you need to slow down A LOT. You have to have time to assimilate each entity that you EVOKE. That takes time. If all you want to do is a "call center" operation then I submit you are missing most of what the experience is supposed to give you.

I applaud your desire to EVOKE all 72 to the Goetics. That said, do it slowly. IMO, the experience will be FAR more meaningful.

Humbly, I AM

Yazan 06-17-2004 09:53 PM

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^^^ Agreed, IAM.

Plus, if you want to be a purist, then you'll have to wait for the right timing for each spirit to be evoked....

YHVH 06-17-2004 10:06 PM

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Okay! In fact, I wasn't planning to do this shortly, I just had this idea and wanted to hear your oppinion. I must admit that the idea of having the 4 chief spirits of the goetia around you at the same time was challenging enough to trigger me...

In fact, back to the days starting evocations, I had the dream of evoking the 4 Archangels or the 4 Elemental kings at the same time...

Grab 06-17-2004 11:30 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by YHVH
In fact, back to the days starting evocations, I had the dream of evoking the 4 Archangels or the 4 Elemental kings at the same time...


That's what part of the LBRP/LIRP is for, right? There are no triangles, true, but on the other hand, triangles are not required for evokations.

/Grab

Celtic SoulFire 06-17-2004 11:51 PM

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Although I have absolutely no real knowledge of the Goetia, I would ask if you've evoked the 72 entities seperately before? If not, then I'd advise you to do that first to get to know them individually. Then you could move onto evoking all of them as per your designated 13-day ritual.

To and for by,
Celtic SoulFire.

Ekron 06-17-2004 11:55 PM

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I would agree that such a person should take it easy. These rituals in such a relatively short space of time would be not only spiritually tireing but mentally and physically also.

IMO I would not abandon the triangle of art just yet. If physical ones were not used I would use astral ones. Keep the mind focused.

kirk88 06-18-2004 02:48 AM

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Yes, you should take it easy and jackdirt your friend needs to take it easy because there is karmic retribution in the summoning of goetia. Many practitioners that I've met always said that there is always karmic payback in dealing with goetia and demons. There is always a cost in dealing with them. Jackdirt, since your friend has summoned all the demons within goetia, did he do proper banishing for each one and does he know about the gateway that he has opened when summoning entities. Since, he did summoning within a month he most likely opened one hell of a gateway, for other entities to cross. I truly feel that it's pretty idiotic and ignorant in the practitioner to do something like that, at least this is what I feel....


Good luck for your friend and the person who's trying to attempt this experiment... :rolleyes:

Grab 06-18-2004 04:12 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk88
there is karmic retribution in the summoning of goetia. Many practitioners that I've met always said that there is always karmic payback in dealing with goetia and demons. There is always a cost in dealing with them.



Whoa, they forgot to write THAT on the back of the can! Could you give a specific example of how that would work?

Myself, I haven't noticed any such, but... perhaps my perception was also distorted by the workings, thereby disabling my detecting any such paybacks.


Quote:
does he know about the gateway that he has opened when summoning entities. Since, he did summoning within a month he most likely opened one hell of a gateway, for other entities to cross.


Whoa, there is a gateway too? I never saw that in the fineprint of the contracts! How do they work?

/Grab

kirk88 06-18-2004 05:28 AM

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Try reading "The Book of Solomon's Magick", in the book they talk about the use of the gateway in the summoning of Goetia and other spirits. Grab if you ever used Goetia, then you'll start to know that after you've summoned a demon or a goetic spirit you'll start to have strange things happen to you. For example, if you start to summon to many spirits in such a short period, you'll start to see things around you change in a "negative and scary" way. If anyone knows Bune is a quick money spirit, but she always seems to do it by accidents like your car gets rear ended, and ect. So, you can see that when summoning a spirit like Bune you could get a karmic backlash.

Nero 06-18-2004 05:51 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk88
If anyone knows Bune is a quick money spirit, but she always seems to do it by accidents like your car gets rear ended, and ect. So, you can see that when summoning a spirit like Bune you could get a karmic backlash.


Kirk, I know you have been around the block a few times but I have to add this.

Basic Summoning 101:
A spirit will answear your request in the simplest way it knows how, regardless of right or wrong. I really don't think they know the difference, no moral code I guess. The old story of asking for money and then your Grandfather dies and leaves you money is a good example of this. When ever you ask for something make sure you tell the spirit to cause no damage and to harm noone to accomplish it's task.



Grab 06-18-2004 06:26 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk88
Try reading "The Book of Solomon's Magick", in the book they talk about the use of the gateway in the summoning of Goetia and other spirits.



OK, I still don't understand. Care to explain? I have the DVD but not the book. Are you talking about that angel <-> demon correspondence table that Runyon made up?


Quote:
Grab if you ever used Goetia, then you'll start to know that after you've summoned a demon or a goetic spirit you'll start to have strange things happen to you.



Strange effects, well maybe, but not exactly bad.

/Grab

Ganymede 06-18-2004 07:25 AM

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One question, but do you plan to do this entire thing non-stop? Because if you do, then one major factor is obviously eating and drinking to nourish the body. And of course there's sleeping which I love to do.

If you do plan to do this entire thing with breaks... do you just expect the 4 chief spirits of the Goetia to hang around? And all the other entities for that matter? Added to the fact that... how exactly do you take breaks from a ceremony without breaking any of the rotes?

blackarts34 06-18-2004 08:54 AM

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I just don't see anything beneficial pursing this kind of kamakazi approach to the Goetia. I agree with what Kirk said about there being a price when dealing with these entitites. Just working with one spirit has taken so much out of me. Its leaves a definate impression on the pysche and environment of the practitioner. To summon all 72 in 13 days including the 4 chiefs sounds like complete madness. But if you are inclined to pursue this operation please share with us your experiences.

YHVH 06-18-2004 02:29 PM

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Quote:
there is karmic retribution in the summoning of goetia



Quote:
I agree with what Kirk said about there being a price when dealing with these entitites



I really, REALLY don't think that this can be directly true. The cosmic law of karma has to do with cause and effect, and there's NO cause to bring a bad effect UNLESS YOU EVOKE WITHOUT USING YOUR GREY MATTER. Well, if you ask for something without mentioning the fact that you don't want ANY consequences YOU or KARMA "thinks" as negative, then you're completely responsible for what happens.
The evocation itself should not cause karmic problems.




Quote:
One question, but do you plan to do this entire thing non-stop? Because if you do, then one major factor is obviously eating and drinking to nourish the body. And of course there's sleeping which I love to do.




Let's suppose someone starts the operation of the 1st day at 5 pm, just after the tea[:)].
5-6.30 pm : Opening by Watchtower, Bornless Ritual, Middle Pillar
6.30-7.30 pm (This WILL NOT need more time): Link to the chief of the east by staring at the sigil from the Rose Cross.
Evocation to the physical plane(short home-made conjuration, AP, etc). Have him wait, and pivot to the south. Repeat. Pivot/repeat, pivot/repeat, the welcome to the spirits! Four guys waiting at the four quarters.Do your job, give the Licence to depart.
7.30-8.30 pm: The closing by Watchtower, LBRP,LBRP, LBRP and, for closing the ceremony, LBRP.

This is the way I imagined it, I THINK that this would be possible, but, frankly, I haven't tried it, so I can't be 100% sure. There's only one way to find out.


PS1) I noticed that I AM stressed the fact that we're talking about EVOCATION and NOT INVOCATION. Why would one want to invoke these... things??? I'd never dare to do that.

PS2) When speaking of evocation to the physical plane, I'm referring to Konstantinos's method involving Astral travel to... "draw" the spirits to the physical. In fact, I have never seen another author suggesting physical evocation and describing it, so it's the only method I've heard of. Just for the record, do you know of any other way to evoke in the physical?????????

blackarts34 06-18-2004 03:14 PM

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The price I was referring to was not any kind of karmic retribution. I was referring to things like insanity, depression, extremely bizzare and strange happenings going on in ones daily life, "bad" luck etc.. I have found very little on evoking to the physical. That method Konstantino is talking about he got that from Franz Bardon. I remember reading in a couple of places that blood is necessary to evoke something to the physical plane. But in exactly what manner its suppose to be used its never really elaborated on. My guess is some kind of sacrifice is required.

I AM 06-18-2004 03:19 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by YHVH
I really, REALLY don't think that this can be directly true. The cosmic law of karma has to do with cause and effect, and there's NO cause to bring a bad effect UNLESS YOU EVOKE WITHOUT USING YOUR GREY MATTER. Well, if you ask for something without mentioning the fact that you don't want ANY consequences YOU or KARMA "thinks" as negative, then you're completely responsible for what happens.
The evocation itself should not cause karmic problems.






Let's suppose someone starts the operation of the 1st day at 5 pm, just after the tea[:)].
5-6.30 pm : Opening by Watchtower, Bornless Ritual, Middle Pillar
6.30-7.30 pm (This WILL NOT need more time): Link to the chief of the east by staring at the sigil from the Rose Cross.
Evocation to the physical plane(short home-made conjuration, AP, etc). Have him wait, and pivot to the south. Repeat. Pivot/repeat, pivot/repeat, the welcome to the spirits! Four guys waiting at the four quarters.Do your job, give the Licence to depart.
7.30-8.30 pm: The closing by Watchtower, LBRP,LBRP, LBRP and, for closing the ceremony, LBRP.

This is the way I imagined it, I THINK that this would be possible, but, frankly, I haven't tried it, so I can't be 100% sure. There's only one way to find out.


PS1) I noticed that I AM stressed the fact that we're talking about EVOCATION and NOT INVOCATION. Why would one want to invoke these... things??? I'd never dare to do that.

PS2) When speaking of evocation to the physical plane, I'm referring to Konstantinos's method involving Astral travel to... "draw" the spirits to the physical. In fact, I have never seen another author suggesting physical evocation and describing it, so it's the only method I've heard of. Just for the record, do you know of any other way to evoke in the physical?????????




Both Crowley and Bardon describe EVOKATION in detail. I would recommend doing a little research with these Authors. Additionally, the Goetia is pretty clear as to the method of Evokation used. You will find all these resources in the CM Library.

As for my stressing EVOKATION, you would be surprised at how many have seriously discussed Invokation of these Entities. Bad idea.

Master of The Abyss (a member prior to the hack attacks) took a shotgun approach and summoned all the Goetics within a short time period. However, his short time period was MUCH longer than 13 days if I remember correctly. I think it was over a period of months, not days.

As for summoning these entities with "no consequences" you need to remember this. These entities are summoned hundreds and sometimes thousands of times each DAY. They do NOT like their time wasted. While you might be protected within the Circle what of others in the house or close by? These entities have been known to strike innocents. Do NOT assume these entities have no emotion. That is not true. At least not in my experience. The Law of Unintended Consequences could be brought into play regardless of your intent or actions.

Preparation for the calling of EACH entity is more important than most realize when first starting out. It easily makes the difference between a rewarding experience, a questionalbe experience, or a disastrous experience.

Do what you will. 13 days of Evokation for all the Goetics, IMHO, is not the best approach. I also suspect that mistakes WILL happen. That would not be good.

To address a comment made earlier, if after summoning you have experiences happen TO YOU then Banishing techniques should be looked at closely. You should NOT have ill effects after summoning if the Banishing is done absolutely correctly.

I wish you good luck my friend.

Humbly, I AM

I AM 06-18-2004 03:29 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackarts34
The price I was referring to was not any kind of karmic retribution. I was referring to things like insanity, depression, extremely bizzare and strange happenings going on in ones daily life, "bad" luck etc.. I have found very little on evoking to the physical. That method Konstantino is talking about he got that from Franz Bardon. I remember reading in a couple of places that blood is necessary to evoke something to the physical plane. But in exactly what manner its suppose to be used its never really elaborated on. My guess is some kind of sacrifice is required.



Blood is not necessary to Evoke to the Physical, at least not in any of my experience. During Ritual many use Scrying to "see" the entities they summon (Find this as well in the CM Library). Most Magickians, when starting out, DO attempt physical Evokation. A great many other Magickians continue with the practice for years. It all depends on the Magickian.

I am not certain what you mean when you say you have found little on Evoking to the physical. The Goetia, as well as Crowley and Bardon, discuss this. Do you mean that you have found few first hand accounts of Evokation to the physical? If so, it is a shame that you did not see many of the Topics in the Forums before they were hacked.

I hope this helps.

Humbly, I AM

Grab 06-18-2004 07:16 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by YHVH
I really, REALLY don't think that this can be directly true. The cosmic law of karma has to do with cause and effect,


The law of karma is just a model of the world. If you believe, it will be true.

Same goes for everyone's scare of the Goetia. If you believe they are very fierce demons, then they'll act like it.


Quote:
7.30-8.30 pm: The closing by Watchtower, LBRP,LBRP, LBRP and, for closing the ceremony, LBRP.


This line seems a bit questionable to me. Why would you do four LBRPs in a row after the closing of WT which already contains one?

Do you have long practical experience with the LBRP and banishing in general? How much practical evocation experience do you have in general, and of the Goetia in particular?


Quote:
method involving Astral travel to... "draw" the spirits to the physical. In


If you use his method of evoking a Goetia to the "physical", you would have to travel to the sub-Qlipha of the demon first. Perhaps that's safe, perhaps not, I really don't know.

/Grab

YHVH 06-18-2004 07:36 PM

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Quote:
what of others in the house or close by? These entities have been known to strike innocents



I was about to ask this. I've never read anything on the topic.


Quote:
I am not certain what you mean when you say you have found little on Evoking to the physical. The Goetia, as well as Crowley and Bardon, discuss this. Do you mean that you have found few first hand accounts of Evokation to the physical? If so, it is a shame that you did not see many of the Topics in the Forums before they were hacked.



I'm of the oppinion that the goetia's purpose is not to TEACh someone how to evoke. I know of several people who followed the instructions with no results at all, for obvious reasons. Well, one of them actually managed to have Bael in a semi-physical body, but that's a very special case.
When I'm referring to "physical evocation", I mean evocation TO the physical plane, i.e. building a body, not FROM the physical plane through a mirror. Sorry, my mistake!

Bardon's 2nd book presupposes that you have finished the training of "Initiation into Hermetics". Bardon IS my favorite, but this is like saying to someone who's not called Moses "go to a flaming bush and wait for Eheieh to speak to you" as part of the instuctions.

Aleister speaks clearly, but it seems like he's omitting a vital part of the procedure, a part which would be immediately understood by someone more advanced than me (I think this is the point of the ommision, anyway...)

I repeat, I never said that I will do this project the way it is some day.

Quote:
If so, it is a shame that you did not see many of the Topics in the Forums before they were hacked.


Sadly, I know that... I've come here too late....
However, these forums' members (many of them) are OCCULTISTS. In the forums dealing with the occult in Greece members are people INTERESTED IN THE OCCULT, sometimes fearing it. So, the immediate consequence is that no real occultist, by this I mean that serious neophyte +, would be interested in posting anything there at all. Everyone of you should be proud that this is not the case here, on the contrary.

Another question: Why is evocation of godforms usually not recommended??? I mean, I understand that in this case INvocation would be more appropriate, but why not???

blackarts34 06-19-2004 06:26 AM

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I was referring to actual first hand accounts, yes. Isn't the reason why you don't evoke a godform the same as why you don't evoke archangels. Its unethical and dangerous. Is that correct?

Ekron 06-19-2004 04:39 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by YHVH
Another question: Why is evocation of godforms usually not recommended??? I mean, I understand that in this case INvocation would be more appropriate, but why not???


As I see it it's because they are far removed from our plane of consciousness. We have to sooner or latter work towards them, adepthood. The vast majority of us are not ready for them. It is easy to connect with elementals etc because they are so near our plane.

Godforms and archangels will contact us when we are ready.

If I request the help of angels, devas whatever we wish to call them I mostly use prayer commbined with meditation upon their sigils if I have them or can formulate them.

For a detailed analysis read the book "Devas and Men, a compliation of theosophical studies on the angelic kingdom", it quotes from over 30 authorites including "The Secret Doctrine and Treatise On Cosmic Fire"

palindroem 06-19-2004 07:59 PM

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I supposed that we didn't evoke to godform cause it doesn't make sense. As a godform, we take a certain physical station of the god, in order to provide an appropriate "vessel" for the god to "form" or manifest into . . . ala invoke.
Just me, but it doesn't make sense to evoke to a first-person physically formulated "sacred" form.

And on evocation of Archangels (I'm assuming that in context this translates to all angels too) . . . ummm, oops! Why aren't we supposed to do this? I do . . .
(I thought part of the LBRP IS evoking them ;) )

I find that some (although loose and unrequired) evocational work with elementals, natural spirits, angels . . . is a very valuable addition to my work. Personally I can't really see why there's been such a big interest in demonic summoning when theres a huge plethera of evocational opportunities without the Goetics.
As has been said, Angels are by no means related to teletubbies. They are serious encounters (not to suggest they don't have sense of humors)
And try calling some nature spirits (not necassarily elements) . . . wild and cunning critters . . but fun . . still, WHEW!

On ethics . . . well, its our world, if they don't wanna be bothered by us, then they should participate in our world. WE, afterall, are the designated highest life form in our plane of existance.

(*sorry about this rant . . . pali woke me up just to rattle . . :) *)

LadyHydralisk 06-20-2004 11:06 AM

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To me, personally this sounds like more of a lifetime's work to do it properly. Then, again, when I reflect on it, this is probably just due to the fact that I seem to have so little time to do any actual work. I cannot be interupted during the working and I have two babies. Tricky. It does sound like a worthwhile endeavor.

I AM 06-20-2004 09:53 PM

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First, I would like to address the difference between INVOKING and EVOKING as I think there is some confusion by some.

When INVOKING you are calling the Entity WITHIN. Inside of yourself while in the Circle. When EVOKING you are calling the entity WITHOUT. Outside the Circle usually into the Triangle.

Second, there is nothing unethical about EVOKING a God or Godform. There is however a danger. Their POWER is generally more than many can take safely. Your GROWTH determines whether you can safely INVOKE these entities and you should be ever careful to not give in to EGO. EGO has destroyed many magickians. The Angels are called by many and sucessfully. One should not assume they are "safer" because they are "Angels".

Third, you will notice that I talk about INVOKING and EVOKING Godforms. As many of you know I am an Eclectic Magickian. I followed no one path. Some paths "Put On" the Godform as I understand it. I have a different view of Godforms. For example, in the Necronomicon there are the Fifty Names of Marduk. In the Bible that God is a God of Vengence, a God of Retribution, a God of Love, etc. Different facets of the same diamond.

In my experience each of these Facets (Forms) can be successfully called. These are what I always called "God Forms" however I now understand (Thanks to Frater Manjet) that others view it differently. Calling these "God Forms" can ruin your whole day if done incorrectly. And the POWER of the God Forms can be overwhelming.

INVOKING a God or "God Form" will subject you to POWER that can be difficult to contain. For example, the first time I INVOKED Marduk years ago the power came on like a freight train and was so strong that I could not contain it. I had to "Back Down" the INVOKATION to survive it safely. The problem is that many inexperienced magickians do not have the capability to "Back Down".

To forestall questions on this, the capability to "Back Down" is something you will come to KNOW with experience and growth. It is more than just shutting off the INVOKATION. Doing that still leaves you with more power than you can contain unless you do it BEFORE you receive too much power. That is difficult as it can come into you almost instantaneously. "Backing Down" involves immediately releasing the power that has come within. This is difficult and should only be attempted by experienced Magickians. As a hint though, I have used the word "Discharge" intentionally. Like any charge (electricity, etc) there are methods of discharging energy. This type of knowledge is usually only gained from teaching received in the Astral.

As Grab said you can EVOKE without using a Triangle. In fact, you can bring an entity to you just by focusing on its Sigil. However, I do not recommend it especially when dealing with powerful entities. The power of these entities WILL "discharge" and this discharge will be unpredictable without the proper protections. This is the problem many have when summoning the Goetics. And the discharge can be VERY ugly or deadly. This is also a prime reason to BANISH.

Someone mentioned the Karmic debt that occurred when working with certain entities. In my experience I have to say I do not agree with this. The only "debt" that might accrue would be due to your ACTIONS. For instance calling a Goetic to do harm to another would probably have Karmic reprecussions while calling a Goetic to learn would not. And, if you take the view that calling can have Karmic reprecussions then we should realize that calling ANYTHING would have these consequenses. That said, the originator of the Karmic Comment could be absolutely correct and my Karma is already so screwed up that it clouds my judgement.

In my experience "Angels" have a different method action than "Demons". However, have you noticed that Demons can do GOOD things and Angels can do BAD things? To view these "Angels" and "Demons" in a religious context may lead one astray. However, I do not want to get into a "religious" discussion so I will leave it at that.

I hope this discussion has not confused anyone and I hope it has helped some.

Humbly, I AM

Master of the Abyss 06-20-2004 09:57 PM

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*returns to forums*

As I AM said, I summoned all 72, but my schedule was one per night. However, when I screwed up and failed to do one for whatever excuses I'm not going to come up with, I did two on the next night - and the worst I did was four demons in a row. This is perhaps the closest to practical experience in what you are thinking of you'll find in these forums.

The exercise you propose is doable, but it is extremely stressful and dangerous. I consider myself a fairly experienced evoker and I'm definitely not on the shy side of things, but all fancy theories of karma aside, multiple demon evocations are the magical equivalent of being under drumfire. I consider daily meditation, several banishing and cleansing rituals per evocation, and extreme attention to groundedness and centeredness absolutely vital even for the one-demon-per-night trip. For evoking them all in 13 days, anything less than doing it full-time (and I mean full-time) is, IMHO, probably suicidal. Unless you abort the exercise, which I can tell in advance will be a very tempting option. Use well-prepared magical tools (my cup, the only magical weapon not properly consecrated, burst in the evocation of Vassago) and, if at all possible, have a permanent temple room to work in. Don't speak about your working to anyone not capable to shield herself. Write an extensive magical diary and continually search your mind for traces of demonic taint. Prepare yourself for each evocation - astrally visiting them before the ritual to inform them of the imminent evocation worked fine for me.

Everything becomes a lot easier once you have all the demons summoned and bound to your will. Repeated evocations of the same entity are quite easy, and under these circumstances, even summoning all 72 at the same time is not out of the question.

Simultaneous evocation into several triangles is quite trivial, but after you give license to depart, I do not recommend attempting to banish all demons at once. Banish them one by one and you should be fine.

Still, this is an extreme danger going into without a very good reason is an exceptionally stupid thing to do. A reason you'd go to war for.

LadyHydralisk 06-21-2004 01:33 AM

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Great post, I AM...especially the part about ego and energy discharge.

YHVH 06-21-2004 05:20 PM

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This thread has become increasingly interesting...
I must especially thank I AM and Master of the Abyss, their experiences makes the difference.

Master of the Abyss, this "prior astral visiting" is a VERY interesting idea. Could this be dangerous, being close to the entity without proper preparation? And, when you say astrally, do you strictly mean Astral Projection, a rather difficult skill to master, or just meditation/visualisation/mental travel???


Quote:
(my cup, the only magical weapon not properly consecrated, burst in the evocation of Vassago)


This is freaky, they were never so aggressive with me. In fact, I've only summoned 2 goetics, and luckily our conversations were short and sweet, but can they actually manipulate things which are INSIDE the circle? I mean, how, if the circle is properly made???

I suppose that you've posted something like a diary in the old forums.
Are they COMPLETELY lost or is there a way to find some of them??

Master of the Abyss 06-22-2004 04:09 AM

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The Cup was in the triangle, not in the circle. Yes, it was a stupid idea.

Mental travel is enough. In fact, it is probably better than astral travel, because it seems a lot safer. (I still banish before and after mental meetings with demons.)

IIRC, I didn't post a diary, but I have an account of the matter somewhere, which I wrote for a mailing list. I'll dig... okay, got it.

Quote:
some of you may remember that about three months ago, I mentioned on this list I was going to do a goetia exercise and summon all 72 spirits of the goetia on 72 consecutive nights. I, well, "almost" succeeded and here's the story of it - mostly because I hope it will be interesting for those of you interested in goetia work, but also because I hope I can collect any comments you might wish to give.


I proceeded in the numerical order of the goetia spirits (i.e. Bael to Andromalius), except for Dantalion, whom I evoked several days in advance, postponing the others by one day. During the exercise, I compiled a small book that was to be my "brazen vessel". Every day, I drew one demon sigil on a full page and wrote all data (name, day of summoning etc.) on the back. In the back of the book, I had the pentacle of solomon (so it was "on the back" of every demon sigil), and in the front, the hexagram. The seal that Solomon had on his brazen vessel (for the time of the exercise, I adopted the paradigm the story had really happened as the book says) was on the front and back cover of my "brazen vessel". I didn't have a ring of Solomon, and used my normal magical ring instead whenever a ring was required.


The magical tools I used were my usual magical dagger, wand, disc and cup. However, the cup was destroyed when I, foolishly, put it into the triangle to hold a sacrifice, and the wand mysteriously got lost at the end of the exercise. The magical dagger was almost lost too: after one evocation that I did on a mountaintop, it disappeared from a closed and sealed knife handle on the way back, at 3:33 AM or within one minute of that. This happened when I was exhausted from the summoning, alone in complete darkness - I had not brought light - and surrounded by stange sounds from the wind in the trees - definitely one of the scariest moments I've had in my life! I found the dagger again the day after, but have no mundane explanation for how I could possibly have lost it.


Fear was something I absolutely bathed in for these weeks - I have stared into the black eyes of demon kings and fearlessly forced them into submission, but I have also huddled up in a fetal position in a locked room filled with 300 watts of white light and several powerful banishing spells, sweating with terror. I guess if I had known in advance how bad this trip was going to be, I would not have attempted it. To counter these problems, I found a lot of banishment (a dozen banishing rituals per day) and daily meditation to suffice.


My usual daily procedure went like this. During the day, I would do a trance travel to the "demon of the day", tell him I was going to summon him this night and ask if he'd like a small sacrifice as a gesture of goodwill on my part. Most wanted one, and as I refused to sacrifice anything very valuable or living, the sacrifices were usually in the range of food, beverages, small fires or, at most, 5 euro notes. At night, I did the ritual. Usually, I used a circle and triangle drawn on the floor with chalk - the triangle was a complete triangle of art with the demon sigil in the middle, the circle just a geometric circle.
Sometimes I was more elaborate and painted more complicated circles, but on other occasions, I did not use any of this and carved the circle and triangle on the astral only. On about half of the evocations, I had an altar with a candle on it. The ritual was: IAO banishment, Gnostic Ritual of the Pentagram, my personal version of the LBRP, draw the triangle of art on the astral (even if physically present) vibrating the various names, put sacrifice into the triangle, freeform conjuration including an invocation of JHVH, contact, license and command to depart, destruction of the triangle, another LBRP, another GPR, another IAO, banishment with laughter. On several occasions, I found myself unable to summon one night - I then postponed the summoning and did two (or more)
summoning rituals in a row a later night.


On average, the ritual took about one to one-and-a-half hours, mostly because the banishings tended to become quite excessive. I often needed two or three minutes for a qabalistic cross, taking one deep breath per vibration. Because of this, the ritual often felt like a yoga exercise shortly interrupted by an occasional demon summoning. This also led to a sort of contact with my HGA although I didn't pray (or even bother, actually) and just "happened to" invoke him. I had had sparse moments of contact with my HGA before.


Sometimes, I departed from this procedure and did other things. Vassago, most notably, was summoned with the help of two others: one of us invoked Satan and we all went on an astral trip to hell from where we picked up Vassago. This was quite effective, although the exorcism of Satan after the ritual took some time and effort. Another experimental evocation involved me standing in a lake with the waterline at my waist, calling up the demon from the demon realm I had defined to be under the surface. I suspect at least one of these experimental workings went wrong, because I felt distinct traces of demonic tainting after a while, but couldn't discern where exactly the mistake had been.


Manifestations were always visible, but mostly only astrally. IIRC, there were seven occasions where I seemed to see manifestations with my physical eyes, although I now hold the opinion these things are "only"
hallucinations. I never got physical manifestations when I had only an astral circle and triangle. I rarely used incense, and when I did, I never got a real pillar of smoke that anything could have showed itself in, but only a general sort of mist all over the place. When contact was established, I forced the demon to give me a word of command that I would be able to use to instantly summon him and his legions up to do my bidding, and make them leave again when I would command so. Most gave me such a word surprisingly readily, but some tried to trick me or had to be forced into submission. I wrote the words down into my book and designed a ritual using them that I'm going to perform when someone REALLY pisses me off. (evil grin) This was the main aim of the exercise, besides getting some experience with goetic summoning.


The reason why I say I "almost" succeeded is that I did not do the final summoning on the 72nd night, but several days later. After the 71st summoning, I found myself bombarded with wonderful synchronicities, meetings with interesting people and other things that successfully diverted me from completing the exercise. I also lost my wand then. When I finally did the last ritual, Andromalius and his legions attacked my circle - I repelled the attack, but forgot to write down the word of command he had already given to me and had to repeat the summoning when I noticed the mistake, several days later.



And just for the sake of completeness, here's another post from the same list. The list is the "ritual-magic" one at Yahoogroups, the archives of which hold a lot more (and better) material on the Goetia.


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MOLOCH wrote:
I proceeded in the numerical order of the goetia spirits (i.e. Bael to Andromalius), except for Dantalion, whom I evoked several days in advance, postponing the others by one day.< Why several days in advance for Dantalion? Were you waiting for auspicious Astrological timing?


No, I expected to be needing him for for an additional summoning I planned to do beside the regular run through the series of 72, and wanted to have him bound prior to that. The extra summoning did not come to pass, though.


However, the cup was destroyed when I, foolishly, put it into the triangle to hold a sacrifice,< Mind telling how the cup was destroyed?


In the summoning of Vassago (the one where three people summoned, and one of us invoked Satan), the cup held a bundle of burning frankincense sticks. After the ritual, we found a part of the cup had broken off. I also found three dead flies in the triangle afterwards - there were no dead flies anywhere else in the very large room that day, but three within inches from each other, inside the triangle. This made us a bit uneasy, but no harm was done except to the flies and cup. In the summoning of Valefor, I used the already-broken cup again in the same way and another part came off. The cup was a vase of thick crystal glass (similar to an ashtray), so the heat from the incense sticks could explain the breaking of it. However, I have used the cup to hold incense sticks on several other occasions, and it did not break in any of these.


and the wand mysteriously got lost at the end of the exercise.< Lost in what way? Did you merely misplace it? I lost an 11" X 14"
black mirror that I made for my summoning of Marchosias when I moved.
Odd how these beings can make you forget simple things as such eh?


It apparently fell out of my bag on a trip.


This happened when I was exhausted from the summoning, alone in complete darkness - I had not brought light - and surrounded by ...snip...

Sounds as if you've experienced and lived thru a "Dark Night of the Soul", MoTA. Do you feel any stronger for it?


Not sure. I feel a bit like I've been a soldier in a war, and aside from having learned how to survive a battle and how to shoot, so to speak, it all was a lot of unnecessary strain. Guess the knowledge will serve me well in case I ever get into a similar situation again, but I don't know if I will. At any rate, I probably won't start such a thing again just for the kicks and ego gratification.


To counter these problems, I found a lot of banishment (a dozen banishing rituals per day) and daily meditation to suffice.< Did you do any sort of auric sealing ritual? What about any exorcism formulae? Or burn any exorcism incenses?


I used to do the LBRP, GPR and IAO banishments. I also protected my home with the help of the archangels (and a long list of other friends) and cleansed it with incenses.


My usual daily procedure went like this. During the day, I would do a trance travel to the "demon of the day", tell him I was going to ...snip...
going to this extent to let a Spirit know I was going to summon it.
Were any of these experiences in and of themselves, startling?


Some were quite interesting, especially when the spirit in question decided to receive me with all his legions. But when it comes to trance visions, I'm a bit spoiled, a hundred thousand demons army is not that impressive to me. ;)


On about half of the evocations, I had an altar with a candle on it.< Were the half of these rituals that employed an altar done in your temple?


Most of them. I sometimes improvised altars - in an abandoned industrial plant and in a cave, for example.


The ritual was: IAO banishment, Gnostic Ritual of the Pentagram, my personal version of the LBRP, draw the triangle of art on the ...snip...
for summoning the Spirits from the Goetia without using the accepted Goetia rites and practices but that's merely their opinion anyway.


I hope I will have the opportunity to use the traditional form someday.
The traditional circle of protection in particular looks very powerful to me.


On several occasions, I found myself unable to summon one night - I then postponed the summoning and did two (or more) summoning rituals in a row a later night.< Why? Why couldn't you summon? Did you mean this was due to having other committments or time constraints?


Other commitments, and sometimes the presence of people I didn't want to trouble with demon business.


the ritual often felt like a yoga exercise shortly interrupted by an occasional demon summoning. This also led to a sort of contact ...snip...
Interesting. Did your HGA admonish you for having truck with such dire Spirits as some magicians (sic) have pompously claimed?


Not at all. I can confirm Aaron's remark about the HGA helping, or actually making possible, the meddling with demons.


I suspect at least one of these experimental workings went wrong, because I felt distinct traces of demonic tainting after a while,< What led you to believe it went wrong? Can you describe what "demonic taining" is like?


Aside from rather obvious, but hard to describe energetic imbalances, it was a feeling of slight paranoia, physical weakness and general vulnerability.


When I finally did the last ritual, Andromalius and his legions attacked my circle - I repelled the attack, but forgot to write down the word of command he had already given to me and had to repeat the summoning when I noticed the mistake, several days later.< Oops! Why didn't you write it down?


Just forgot to while I was busy banishing.


comedian777 06-25-2004 12:54 PM
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First off: You will NOT suffer "karmic retribution" for dealing with Goetic spirits. Even if you purposefully send them to do naughty, naughty things, the backlash will usually be subtle and will end up benefitting you anyway (as with anything else, just about.)
As far as the proposed operation at the beginning of this thread, holy shnikeys! That sounds fun, in theory, but for one, it would be a heck of a lotta work. Second, traditionally this type of thing is prescribed for right after you have experienced the "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel." But hey, if it floats your boat, play around! In my experience, that's the best way to learn things. Not always the most pleasant, but not always bad at all, I might add! There are a number of mainly practical reasons not to, but if you've got your heart set on it, I say go for it. I wouldn't do it, mainly because I definetly don't have the time to evoke 3 spirits a day, and all that jazz.
It's been a little while since I've evoked even one. Laziness on my part? Probably! But if you want to begin this project make sure that you see it through to its completion. If you just stopl that's where I see the problems arising. But hey, that could just be me.


YHVH 07-03-2004 09:03 PM

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I was away from home for many days, and I will be in the next days too, so I didnīt see this. Master of the Abyss, I must deeply thank you, the posting of your experience, now or in the past, is a very useful and inspiring act.
 


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