Absolute Beginners: General Newbie Questions and Answers

Mmothra 07-20-2004, 03:05 AM
07-11-2004, 06:55 AM
Well, let's see, where do I start...

First, I am completely new to this. It isn't nessecarily new to me, I have always known that magic (majic, majick, magick...whatever), clairvoyance (sp?), etc. is real, and exists, however, I have never considered it much more than to consider it. When I was a child, I used to have dreams, but I never used to see my dreams in the way that others appeared to. Alot of my dreams came true. Usually, they were about things that weren't completely important in the sense that it was about something major, but they were happening. Anyway, before I go off on a tangent.... a recent increase in the frequency of my dreams, and the same thing happening in real life has raised my interest in the occult to the point that I just don't want to consider it. I want to explore it... be a part of it. I want to understand so much more than I do.

I am sure that alot of my questions will be answered in time, as I seek them on my own, but where do I seek them? I tried to reading the possible newbie questions post, but I think it confused me more than helped. First off, besides the bickering, most of the threads contained words or references I have never heard of. Then, add the fact that there are so many different types of studies represented here... well.... it makes things that much more difficult to decipher.

I guess, basically I am looking for a good place to start, if someone would be so kind as to point me in a direction. Basically, I have a firm understanding it all, but don't have any understanding at all about what I can do... and I want to learn.

I do have one problem though... I am not exactly in a place that allows for so much in the way of toting around books on the occult. Not without very much in the way of trouble for me. I am currently in the military, stationed in Iraq, so there aren't alot of avenues available to me in the way of bookstores and such. But, leave a technology savvy guy to his own devices, and he will find a satellite dish and some internet service somewhere( just enough space on the horizon to reach european internet companies).

Anyway, if anyone thinks they have any advice, though I guess I haven't left much in the way of finding help.

07-11-2004, 11:22 AM

Well, you already started. And you don't have to tote around a lot of books to read. I would highly suggest reading over the topics here in the Beginner's Forum that interest you and then read around at some of the other information we have here. The internet is a varitable cornucopia of info on this. There are many good sites that we have listed in useful links topic in some of the forums here, as well as libraries of books available in pdf format in a few of the forums. Take your time, read around, research and ask questions.

Sud Ram
07-11-2004, 01:39 PM

You would probably be surprised at how much occult material lies in the sands of Iraq. I believe at this time of confusion many (occult) transactions and exchanges are happening between greedy local people who have no problem in pillaging knowledge and greedy collectors and obscure practicioners who know about what is available and will do anything to get their hands on them.

Just speculating.


If you have dreams feel free to post the in the Divination forum where you will surely find people available to help you understand them.

07-12-2004, 11:21 AM

Thanks for the idea on the divination forun thing... I wasn't really too sure what the whole dream thing would fall under... but I heard, after talking to a couple trusted friends, that "prophetic" type dreams can be a sign of natural witchcraft ability. Don't know if that's true, but it did pique my interests.

Also, I am sort-of figuring out what I am looking for. Magick really interests me. Alot from the stand point of self improvement. There are alot of things I would like to work on. Having a little clarity in some decisions I am fighting with would be one. Also, some strength... not really physical, but spiritual.... and of course, I really like the idea more and more of studying magic.....

Any reccomendations from anyone? I am already reading alot of the posts elsewhere on this site, but I have to admit. Reading through one thread can be tough... read a post... stop... look up some of the words used (LBRP, QP, PEEP). Look in another forum string to find out what a banishment ritual was (yup... I'm that new at this all)... then go back to the thread I was originally reading.. etc. But, I am slowly getting there!!!

I don't really want to just jump into something without understanding it. I read a couple of post about how people got started, but maybe someone would be willing to get a little more specific on what exactly they did to get started? Read (insert book title here) or talk to= (insert name here)? Meanwhile I am looking around online as well...

Thanks again.

07-12-2004, 02:36 PM

Well, if it's magic you're after, witchcraft may be your best avenue. Witchcraft is fairly flexible in that most witches also will dabble in divinitation, healing and some into a more religous aspect (one example of that being wicca). There are many set paths in witchcraft, and many undiscovered ones ;)

I wouldn't advise limiting yourself to one tradition or anything at this point, you don't sound terribly sure about what you want to do. If you'd like to look into witchcraft, trot on over to the witchcraft forum, feel free to PM me with any questions, I'm a fountain of information on all things witchie.

Whatever you decide to do... I wish you blessings on your path.

07-13-2004, 02:57 AM

You sound like a pretty intuitive driven person. i say go to hermetic.org (.com???) and sacred-texts.com and reading the grimoires casually. just sort of scan them over, feel them out, and youll begin to get a feel for the different energies that a mage can work with. maybe youll find one you like.

Mmothra07-20-2004, 03:06 AM
nestea06-10-2004, 09:52 PM
Ive actually stumbled upon this site, I cant even remember what I was looking for when I found the link here. Needless to say the subjects here have always intrigued me. The absolute immensity (is that even a word?) of the information here is staggering...and im havin difficulty figuring out where to begin educating myself. There are plenty of threads with references to books and etc. but noone really clearly says "If you know absolutely nothing, then you should know _________ first." If ive missed the thread for the absolute newbie, Im sorry, as I have a tendency to be completely oblivius at times. If anyone wouldnt mind helping me out, I would be much obliged.


Rain06-10-2004, 10:54 PM
Welcome to the forum. I can understand how it might be overwhelming. I'm guessing you posted to this forum because you're interested in Wicca and witchcraft? I can't find any good resource threads at the moment with recommendations, though I'm sure they're around here somewhere , so I'll just suggest some beginner sites and books;


As to books, I'm sure everyone will have some recommendations. I suggest reading the Farrar's Witches' Bible Compleat, Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft, and/or Viviane Crowley's book called Wicca. I also like Jennifer Hunter's book, 21st Century Wicca, and Amber Laine Fisher's Philosophy of Wicca discusses philosophy in more detail. Also consider The Triumph of the Moon by Ronald Hutton, Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Adler, and A Witch Alone: Thirteen Moons to Master Natural Magic by Marian Green. Several of these books have just been re-released and should be available to you. In general I recommend these as they are meatier and more spiritually focused then some of the newer books by authors such as Silver RavenWolf, but this is a matter of taste.

I like visiting the reviews on The Cauldron to take a look at what others think about books before I buy them - you can find that at http://ecauldron.com/bookstore.php
personal blog . technopagan/chaos blog . bewitchweb

nestea06-10-2004, 10:54 PM
thank you...as for your question as to whether i am interested in wicca etc. , honestly i dont know enough to discern between wicca and other forms of magic? By looking through the other threads the first thing that pops out at me is the major attitude differences between the people in the witchcraft thread than say the satanism thread...although that sounds like it should be obvious. I know nothing and I want to know more, thank you for the links im looking into them now


Rain06-10-2004, 10:54 PM
Well, Wicca is a religion, witchcraft is usually considered a type of magical outlook, and Satanism is usually considered a philosophy (go check out the Satanism forum for more info on that - I think you'd be surprised to read what Satanism is really about. For one thing, there are at least a few major kinds of Satanism).

That said, some use the terms Wicca and witchcraft interchangeably. It's a big debate in some circles I have a few basic terms on my site that might start to help you figure this out - http://www.bewitchweb.com/?x=air&y=words It can get confusing and overwhelming, I'm glad you're willing to do some research and puzzle it out for yourself.
personal blog . technopagan/chaos blog . bewitchweb

nestea06-10-2004, 10:54 PM
thank you rain, also...id like to know from you what your personal beliefs are and if you have any notable experiences you'd like to share...

Rain06-10-2004, 10:54 PM
Incidentally, I just have a strange suggestion. This forum is great, but it's not really targeted to beginners. There are other forums I visit that might help you understand the basic stuff better as more of the members there are beginners themselves and a lot of newbie topics are going on. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be here or that I don't love this place - I visit a ton of forums myself. You might consider checking out http://www.mysticwicks.com/ and going to the New Pagans forum there. I've written a few beginner threads myself and I know there's a ton of newbie information there. Also check out the Books forum and look for the Recommended Reading thread stuck there.

That said, my beliefs.. well that's a good question with a really long answer that would be too much reading and not much help. I was Wiccan for a few years, am into witchcraft and all kinds of different kinds of magic and religion. I'm not even sure what I believe somedays, it's a puzzle I'm still working out too.
personal blog . technopagan/chaos blog . bewitchweb

nestea06-10-2004, 10:54 PM
well thank you, you have been more then helpful


NightShadow06-10-2004, 10:54 PM
Hey, if your looking to learn about wicca, witchcraft or paganism then try visiting www.wiccanmail.com/forums they're a great forums with a really friendly helpful community. Do you know exactly what type of magic you where wanting to look into, theres so many around these days.
For Every secret left unveiled, for every power learned,
I'd sell the remnants of my soul, regardless how it burnt.

nestea06-10-2004, 10:55 PM
no night, thats what i was looking into, i dont know anything about any of the ones that exist...i was trying to learn a little about all of them

NightShadow06-10-2004, 10:55 PM
Well then your best bet would be to just search around the internet or pick up some books at your local library. If you check some of the other boards here they have some great FAQ's and onfo on all forms of magic.
For Every secret left unveiled, for every power learned,
I'd sell the remnants of my soul, regardless how it burnt.

veinglory06-10-2004, 10:55 PM
Start with any areas you feel drawn to, people, tools (herbs, wands, cards etc), belief systems (myths, ancient stories). I think you will end up in the right area if you do this. e.g. Where have you had 'spooky' feeling. looking at an aboriginal painting, watching a bird fly, in the woods, in the city. Other than that just go to a big public library and browse all around the religion/occult/paranomral section until something grabs you.

celseven06-10-2004, 10:55 PM
Is you interest primarily in Wicca?

I would suggest looking at everything in the study of magic... it is a wide world. Magical traditions in the West are exceeding rich and inter-related (and at times convoluted... but I digress).

I prefer going to "source" material as the best inspiration and self-educational tools. Sites that expound upon one [person/group/ideology]'s view of magic and the occult is sometimes a decent start, but especially in finding your interest on the subject, you should read a whole of varied stuff...

My interests are primarily historiographical, so I guess I would have that slant... but looking at various source-type documents (in the library or online) I find is most fruitful in assessing the world view, reality-making, and practices of magical practioners. I always feel it wise to read from a critical point of view... not in the sense of being skeptical, but I mean to take in the words, concepts, and ideas in the context in which the writer writes. Crowleyian Qabalah is different from Lurianic, Wiccan treatment of the pentagram/penticle is different from Church of Satan or Rosicucianism. Etc.

This will give you your bearings. The general method of magic is symbolic association and meaning making on reality (see Isaac Bonewitz on this... he's fun).

Let me point you to some places on the net that have good source material to give you a smattering of the bredth and depth of the study of esotericism (primarily in the west, since eastern forms are easy to find in your local public/university library).

Gnositicism and Corpus Hermeticum:

Medeival Goetia and Other Classical Texts:


OTO/Crowley, early 20th century Occult Revival:

John Dee and Enochia:

Modern (Post OTO Hermetic) Enochian:

Misc Enochian:


Loads of Religious and Occult Texts (including Wicca and Pagan):

Jewish Kabbalah:

Hope these help

* this site has lots of great pdf downloads... must visit!

nestea06-10-2004, 10:55 PM
thank you very much

mystiKat06-10-2004, 10:55 PM
Hey nestea,
I am a newbie also and I am in a similar situation. If you find any helpful info please pass it along to me. Thanks
Blessed Be,

sodken06-10-2004, 10:55 PM
you might try Modern Magick by Donald kraig if interested in ceramonial magic.it's loaded with good info and highly recomended on that forum,and by me.im just a begginer myself but have learned alot scanning forum's and from the book i mentioned.of course depend's on if CM is a option for you.
hope this helped

Panu Nahka06-13-2004, 03:09 PM
I don't speak with any authority on these matters, but my advice to you is this. Always remember, that nothing you read here, on books or hear from someone else is absolutely true. For there is no truth. Books represent knowledge only on the terms of paradigms of their authors.

Yes, they are right(most of the time), and their rituals work, but consider this: Magick is called Art, because reality is the canvas on which it is painted. So, do you want to learn to imitate the works of the masters of the past, or do you want to paint your own pictures across the reality? I have learned almost nothing useful from any book that discusses or teaches magick. But I have learned to do magick by just observing how things function, and by thinking what is the essence of those things. What is their existence.

I will not recommend you to read some beginners guide to magick. I recommend you to read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert M. Pirsig. It will not teach you any rituals, any "occult truths" or such. But it will teach you much about reality. Just remember, that it is not absolute truth.

Mmothra07-20-2004, 03:15 AM
masterzen06-29-2004, 06:51 AM
Hey, I wondered if anyone could give me their thoughts...

I've been interested in spirituality and the occult for about 10 years now and have read plenty, though have not really turned this into a practice or path, which I now want to do.

I would say I am very interested in spiritual/consciousness development I guess, primarily, then when I have a good basis in this, would want to do some more results-based magic. I find the idea of going down a Quabala or Golden Dawn path pretty interesting as I think that the structure would be valuable especially in the early days. Could I combine such practice with my lower/nature spirituality leanings?

But I find Chaos Magick more realistic in terms of being interlectually tangible ie, I agree with and understand what they are saying about paradigms etc. I also like the elements of Shamanism which are often used. But is Chaos any good for the beginner? How can one dip and and out of different magickal systems at will? Surely one needs to follow one for a while at least to get a good grounding? Im also concerned that Chaos is very results orientated without developing the spirit.

If anyone could help me out with a few ideas, I'd be very greatful.


Daleth06-29-2004, 08:06 AM
Go with whatever suits your style best, as far as magic goes. My main suggestion is that you have no need to combine your spirituality with your magical practice. Doing this often sets peoples' magical practice back, when spirituality can be practiced just fine without including magic, and vice versa. If you feel chaos suits you best, then use it, and practice your spirituality seperately if you feel a need for it, or just incorporate your spirituality into it.

Remember, you can and should construct your own path. Any magical path out there should be regarded primarily as a suggestion and something for you to draw off of if it works for you. You can have structure without having somebody else tell you what to do.

She Demon Wolf06-29-2004, 09:02 AM
Um...this was posted in multiple forums, so one of them should get locked. Since your getting a better responce in ChM forum, I will lock this.

Mmothra07-20-2004, 03:17 AM
-EY-07-01-2004, 02:50 PM
I'm very new to witchcraft but I'd love to start practicing. I don't want to draw someone to me, or alter people's free will (I can only imagine the guilt I'd feel), in fact, I'm not sure why I want to start practicing. I suppose I figure I can help people, and I'm about the biggest people person you can get. Or maybe I want to use my body, mind, and energy to it's full potential. What's the use of it just sitting there?

I really need a lot of help because I don't want to screw up anything.

I was wondering if I could write my own spells, and which ones are appropriate for a beginner? I know I'm healed people before, simple headaches and muscle pain, and I think I drew energy from people, or something. As I said, I'm new to this so I need a little bit of help.

Or maybe a lot ^_^;

Ashnook07-01-2004, 10:09 PM
This may get locked because it looks a bit like spell begging....but im asking the mods not to lock it yet. Im not a witch, ima cerimonial magickian......but I can prolly help you with the begginer stuff. If you can go a bit more into detil as to what you need help with I will be glad to assist you.

doh07-02-2004, 07:12 AM
Well, it's not technically spell begging. Just asking for a place to start. I'm going to answer this question as I see magick. A belief system that just entails the use of spells.

First off, follow your heart. You may wish to follow the path of Wicca, or Thelema, or Druid or Satanism or Chaos. You'll never know until you get your feet wet.

Second, read, read, read, read, read and then read some more. Keep in mind that not everything you read is the god's honest truth or that is unassailable. Use the knowledge to base your own questions so that you can get the answers you are looking for. Ceremonial magick has a wonderful library and I believe j00ls has been working on the one in Witchcraft and in Witchcraft there are discussions of what to read and what not to read, if you are interested.

Third, if you aren't doing it already, begin meditating. It does wonders for focus, concentration and, for me, overall peace of mind.

Fourth, start a journal, your own "book of shadows". You can outline your progress as well as go over it later and see anywhere where you may have wanted to do something different.

As far as spells go, I don't consider sending energy a "ritualized" spell. It is more a simplified prayer where you can just invision someone and send the energy to them. Different people have different ways. You just need to find what's best for you.

So, since spells and energy sending are a bit different for me, I would start the spells with things like casting a circle, protection and wards and talismans. If you take the suggestion to read and you get the books, especially if you get a variety of different paths in those books, you'll get a variety of symbols and colors to use for protection. Pretty much any book will have how to cast a circle.

And finally, if you have a question, and I don't mean to be rude by answering this, please at least attempt to use the search feature here. There is a good chance someone may have already asked it.

EDITED to add: I forgot to mention that, for me, magick is neither black or white, it is intention that causes any differences there. It is neutral, a tool. And don't suck yourself into the ideals of light and dark magick. They can be very difficult stigmas to overcome.

Offinadaze07-03-2004, 03:57 PM
Very Nice doh! Very Nice!

Mmothra07-20-2004, 03:20 AM
The Rose06-26-2004, 01:17 AM
You need to study study study and then study some more before attempting spells. Any book you read any occult practicer any web site you go to will say you have to prepair yourself for months and months before attemping to do magick. Traditionly you're suppose to study for a year and a day, but at least study for 6 months. You have no idea what the hell your doing or the forces you are messing with if you don't. I'm sure everyone here will agree with me.

Let's put it this way:: Magick is the gathering and directing of energy. You have read it like 100's of time on this forum that magick is energy. Energy is like elictricity. Lets say a light socket wasn't working right would you pull the wires out and start crossing this wire with that wire trying to get it to work with out knowing what you were doing? No and if you did most likly then not you'll get one hell of a shock if not kill yourself. The same with magick. If you don't know what your doing your gonna shock and/or kill yourself or someone else.

Let me tell you a story that another witch told me. She had an ex boyfriend that wouldn't leave her alone. He wasn't hitting her or threating her or anything like that. He wanted to get back and she didn't. Everyone has this problem at least once in their lives. Well she did a spell that said get him out of my life. The next week he got hit by a bus and died. I bet alot of you beginners would have said this person won't leave me alone I'll do a spell to make him leave me alone. Well even a simple easy little innocent looking spell can have direr results. Which is why everyone has been saying please please study before you do any spells.

This may or may not be true but I heard that a hurrican, I can't remember which one, was cause by a witch who went over board with a wind and rain spell. A lot of beginners like starting out with wind and/or rain spells to help devolpe their powers because how can a little rain or wind hurt anyone. Well if you don't know what you are doing then yes it can. Any spell even eye changing spells, you going blind can change your eye color, can back fire.

You have to understand nature, energy, magick, and how it works etc. before doing spells. energy doesn't think. It will take the quickest and easiest way to do what is is suppose to do. What is a quicker way to get a guy to leave a girl alone forever if not him getting hit by a bus? Oh I know him getting hit by a train. j/k

Dark*Avalon06-27-2004, 12:10 AM
I very good piece of advice. Ive been studying as time permits for about three years now, and I'm still not ready to mess with spells. I figure that its like trying to use a nailgun without knowing which end the nails come from. It's a fifty-fifty chance you'll drive a nail right through your own face. And I'd definitely rather have a better then eighty percent chance of it actually working the way I want before I will even try something.

And where the hell were you when i was a kid!? I could have used that advice about a light switch I tried to repair back when I was 13. Forgot to turn off the power before pulling at the wires. Needless to say, I've had gaps in my short-term memory since then.

The Rose06-27-2004, 03:15 AM
I wish there was more people like you who realize the value of studying and don't feel bad. We used to have a coil electric, too drunk to spell right, stove and one of the coils wasn't working. My little bro took abart the fuse box and started messing with the wires to try to make it work. I walked into the room where the fuse box was my bro jumped 5 feet back and a blue line of electricity followed him. The stove, which was like 20 feet away, burst into flames. I looked at him looked at the stove looked at him again and asked him how the hell you blew up the stove from 20 feet away? He said I don't know but it hurt like hell. Needless to say the stove woouldn't work at all after that and we ended up buying a new one. He received one hell of a shock from messing with electricity without knowing what he was doing, but hell he must have gotten the right wire lol. But I would call blowing up the stove when he was trying to fix the stove a sucsse.

Dark*Avalon06-29-2004, 05:48 AM
Well, I have bad luck/good luck with fire and lightning. Depends on how you look at it.

I've had 3 close calls with lightning, (One of which was so close that the shockwave imploded the window in my face, that was fun, picking the glass shards out of my skin...) and I've been in one propane-based flash fire from a momentary lack of common sence while trying to light the family grill.

And if you're wondering where the good luck in all that is, it's that I'm still alive and (relatively) unscarred. Thank the gods for fast healing skin, though I wish my lungs healed as fast. Bloody Florida weather.....

BobTheViking06-30-2004, 02:21 AM

I have to admit, I'm a bit skeptical that the risk is as dire as you make it out to be. We've all heard the horror stories of miscast spells, but it doesn't take months to learn to stipulate some condition like "If it harms any, let this spell come to naught."

Most beginners - of which I am one - don't have the capability to wield the tremendous energy needed to create a hurricane or make themselves go blind with a miscast eye color change spell. That takes power and control.

On top of that, I've never even heard of beginner's frying themselves except very rarely - and even then almost always when trying to do a working far too advanced for their skill level.

I understand that it's just a bit of advice, but are you sure it's entirely warranted?

The Rose07-01-2004, 02:08 PM
The post is to try to make beginners really think before they try doing a spell, but most of them are egotistic and won't listen. It annoeys me when a beginner reads one book or goes to like 10 web sites that only repete the same info and think well I been studying for a couple of weeks I'm ready to do a spell. Like I said web sites give only basic infomation. If you want to go in depth about it you have to read books. It doesn't take knowledge to do spells it takes wisdom and wisdom only comes with time. When you don't know enough about the powers you are messing with seriously messed up things can happen.

People in general do what they want to do. A 100 people can tell them that they are ready to do something or are/about to do something dumb, but most likely that person will do it anyways. Beginners never listen to don't do spells until they study.

How many people on this forum for example started doing spells lets said within a couple of weeks? Come on confus up. I did a spell that was suppose to change your eye color for only a day. It stayed a month and my eye sight got twice as bad as it was in that month. No joke. The goddess does things like that to let you know that your not ready to be doing spells.

Tzimtzum07-01-2004, 03:22 PM

I have to admit, I'm a bit skeptical that the risk is as dire as you make it out to be. We've all heard the horror stories of miscast spells, but it doesn't take months to learn to stipulate some condition like "If it harms any, let this spell come to naught."

Most beginners - of which I am one - don't have the capability to wield the tremendous energy needed to create a hurricane or make themselves go blind with a miscast eye color change spell. That takes power and control.

On top of that, I've never even heard of beginner's frying themselves except very rarely - and even then almost always when trying to do a working far too advanced for their skill level.

I understand that it's just a bit of advice, but are you sure it's entirely warranted?
That's the whole point, without study you don't know what the skill levels are, until something bad happens.

I know of many aspiring novice mages who have done tremendous harm to themselves and others because they didn't have sufficient knowledge before performing some rites, ie. goetic evocations and invocations of any kind. Even some elemetals can be harmful if a situation gets out of hand.

IMO, the thread starter is 100% correct. Study, study, study. Learn what you're preparing to do backwards and forwards before you proceed into any magickal work. You'll save yourself a lot of pain and disgruntlement.

Ludi07-01-2004, 03:27 PM
So how long do you have to wait until all the horrible repercussions start piling down on you?

*looks at calendar*

Tzimtzum07-01-2004, 06:18 PM
So how long do you have to wait until all the horrible repercussions start piling down on you?

*looks at calendar*
If you don't know your stuff, and ignore any signs, it's most likely just a matter of time.

Ludi07-01-2004, 08:02 PM
Yes, but, how much time?

Haven't seen any "signs"....


Tzimtzum07-01-2004, 08:11 PM
Haven't seen any "signs"....

That's the scary part. Even practitioners who have studied for decades, regularly see signs that they're pushing the envelope too far. That you're not seeing them worries me.

I know this is forward of me, and pardon for saying so, but pay attention and read the circumstances around you. Arrogance without knowledge or experience is one of the first "signs".

Dark*Avalon07-01-2004, 10:55 PM
Ive always wanted to, at least temporarily to check out the effects and repurcussions, make one eye an icy pale blue like frozen methane... and the other fiery red with gold flecks, like an active lava flow.

But with my luck, and ways of describing what I want, I'd melt one eye and freeze the other solid. That is, of course, besides the fact that I'm a bit understandably nervous about mucking around with my own DNA as it were to begin with, but i have to start somewhere.

I'd like to control the energy and not let it run wild so much. Ive had instances where I've done things mentally, such as shielding against an active intrusion, but I dont have a clue how I did it, or how I even knew someone was messing with my head.

Ludi07-02-2004, 05:24 AM
Hmmm, being accused of arrogance? Not sure why... In what way do you think I'm "pushing the envelope too far" Tzimtzum?

Perhaps it's people who believe in negative repercussions who tend to suffer from them?

Tzimtzum07-02-2004, 08:21 AM
Hmmm, being accused of arrogance?
I don't know.... Maybe making fun of those sharing their experiences and trying to help you?

Hey, I'm not your daddy, do what you want. I'm through giving advice in this thread.

Good luck. :)

doh07-02-2004, 08:31 AM
Oh bah!

The Rose has given some good advice. At least it has made some think, which was the entire purpose. It may sound dire, because sometimes the outcomes truly are. I will say, from what I've seen, that absolutely horrid experiences are few and far between, but they exist, and usually due to someone not really taking into account everything that they are asking or going well beyond "their level" just to see if they can do it or because they feel it is the best option. Sometimes, you just have to make the leap, but you need to make sure you have thought it through before, looking at it from all angles, including all of the possibilities of where it may go wrong. I will say that arrogance, in the meaning I have taken from it based on it's use here, only truly comes about when you get that feeling that "nothing will go wrong and I can handle myself" without even consulting the possiblities of problems.

Mmothra07-20-2004, 03:22 AM
AlmostEvil06-12-2004, 12:23 AM
I've always had an interest in the darker side of the occult. I know that there is a massive amount of info out there, but I just don't know where to start. What path should I choose? Chaos sounds interesting, but I just don't know. I need a mentor or a partner to work with. If anyone has any input, I'd much appriciate hearing it. Thanks in advance.

Nalyd2306-12-2004, 01:23 AM
Why are you attracted to the occult in the first place? This is a question you need to answer for yourself. A good place to start would be to get an overview and history of the different paths. You could start by reading the following :

Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall
The Occult by Colin Wilson
Magick Book 4 by Aleister Crowley
Pact With the Devil by S. Jason Black and Christopher S. Hyatt, for a bit of the "darker side" you mentioned
History of Magic by Eliphas Levi
If you are interested in the Chaos flavor, I put some links here that can get you going - Useful Links for Chaos Applications (http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=3460).

AJAtheMetastasis06-12-2004, 01:34 AM
Don't forget the mighty Book of Bob!!! :lol: AKA: DTOP23

She Demon Wolf06-12-2004, 05:28 AM
Read whatever you can get your hands on *before* you choose your path. In fact, you don't have to be on any path at all! Do what you feel comfortable with, and follow your own heart to the techniques and practices you feel the mosy drawn too.

ehilot06-12-2004, 07:45 AM
start meditating is also recomended.
that will help you find out why, how and what about your interest.
really i started reading and doing stuff before meditating. only after i started meditating came the real thing, it's the clarity of mind you need to figure out how things work.

Qryztufre06-12-2004, 11:03 AM
Breathing, Centering, Grounding & Meditation are the places where you'll likely need to begin regardless of actual path.

Master these few things & the rest you'll find to be a bit easier.

If you're really heading to the darkside I'd also look into practicing the lesser banishing rituals (from the CM forum, or found on Google) and maybe shielding (energy manipulation). As when dealing with any spirits (and especially the baddies) you'll want as much protection as possible.

Once you have gotten the most basic of the basics down come back & ask for further guidance, or just keep your eye out around here...you should catch on...I certainly am :D

All magic is Chaos, it's just that some feign order better then others.

feranaja06-13-2004, 06:29 AM
All good replies, I would add that keeping journals will be helpful for the process of gaining insight and possibly bringing you to your Path...most importantly, writing down dreams, meditation results and general ideas will bring you into deeper contact with your own psyche, which is what it's all about, anyway. Whether you study Witchcraft or CM (dont know about Chaos) you will always be advised to keep a journal, and over the years, you will come to understand what a powerful tool it can be, on many levels.

Good luck, feranaja

morphine06-13-2004, 09:14 AM
Hi Devil,
I will suggest you to buy the following books :

1) Modern magick - Donald Kraig
2) Illustrated Goetia - crowley
3) Pacts with the devil
4) Summoning spirits - konstantinos ( its a rather interesting read than the actual real thing)
5) Astral dynamics - Robert Bruce

Except for kraig and Crowley's Goetia,the other stuff is available as pdf on line.

After going through these books and exercises,I dont think you will ever need to ask anyone what you need to do.But it takes lots of practice and your individual psychic abilities,like I am pretty lucid by nature.

Yes,meditation is a key..indeed.

I hope it helps

Take care


morphine06-13-2004, 09:16 AM
One last sidenote on this.
If you want to understand different paths of occult practices,
I will suggest " hidden wisdom" by smoley
Feel free to pm me if you want to know more.I am a newbie as well...:-)


mbnevill06-14-2004, 11:27 AM
Hi Devil,
I will suggest you to buy the following books :

1) Modern magick - Donald Kraig
2) Illustrated Goetia - crowley
3) Pacts with the devil
4) Summoning spirits - konstantinos ( its a rather interesting read than the actual real thing)
5) Astral dynamics - Robert Bruce

Except for kraig and Crowley's Goetia,the other stuff is available as pdf on line.

After going through these books and exercises,I dont think you will ever need to ask anyone what you need to do.But it takes lots of practice and your individual psychic abilities,like I am pretty lucid by nature.

Yes,meditation is a key..indeed.

I hope it helps

Take care


where is pacts with the devil as a pdf??

doh06-14-2004, 12:40 PM
Many, many good replies.

My personal preference is to read whatever you can get your hands on and ask yourself and others questions that they bring up. Don't limit yourself right off the bat. Start with what interests you and branch.

Meditation I believe is central because it helps you to learn how to focus. Without focus, all of your attempts at anything will have a much slimmer chance of working, if they work at all.

I also keep a journal. Well a few actually. I have one for personal stuff, one for dreams, and one for my magikal pursuits. It is nice to go back and see what, if anything, I've accomplished and where I may have floundered in my goals.


Joan06-14-2004, 12:42 PM
Please enlighten me more on the Topic, I'm new to this,I'm interested'Hope to hear from someone

doh06-14-2004, 12:46 PM
I don't wish to seem rude, Joan, but you kind of need to be a bit more specific about what you wish to know so that someone can help you find it.

morphine06-14-2004, 02:30 PM
Hi Devil,

I guess I forgot to mention the pacts of the devil.Yes,its not online as well.
So you gotta spend some more money....:-)

OF has a huge resource of esoteric texts.You can also take a look at it.

I agree with doh on this,if you plan to summon a demon because of your dark side,you got to be well prepared for it.Just don't do it for the heck of it.

It requires more control of oneself,lot of will and lot of conviction.It also depends on one's own personal aspects.Like I prefer magick simple but lots of practice.I cant stand complicated stuff because I prefer to be more on the practical side of it.

You will also need to learn a method of divination during the course of time ( Tarot )

OF had some excellent posts on goetic evocations.I dont know if they will be restored but if they will be,you might get a clear idea of what I am talkin about.Its something accomplished by seasoned practitioners.

Take care


Mmothra06-14-2004, 02:52 PM
For a relatively intelligent beginner, I would recommend Book of Lies: The Disinformation Guide to Magick and the Occult because it covers a huge amount of ground in a single tome:

An alchemical formula to rip a hole in the fabric of reality.

Disinformation�s �wicked warlock� Richard Metzger gathers an unprecedented cabal of modern occultists, magicians and forward thinkers in Book of Lies. Whereas past Disinformation volumes like You Are Being Lied To, Everything You Know is Wrong and Abuse Your Illusions focused on secrets and lies from the mainstream media, government and other establishment institutions to rethink what a political science book could look like, Book of Lies redefines occult anthologies, packaging and presenting a huge array of magical essays for a pop culture audience.

- Terence McKenna asks if we can contact "aliens" with the smokable drug DMT�the answer may surprise you!
- The Executable Dreamtime by Mark Pesce explores the relationship between spellcasting and computer programming.
- Comics genius Grant Morrison�s Pop Magic! Explains how YOU can become a practicing magician!
- Memento Mori: (Remember You Must Die) by Paul Laffoley examines the growing fascination with death in our culture and describes �Thanatonic� energy
- Artist Joe Coleman on the occult aspects of his work in Joe is in the Details.
- Are You Illuminated? by Phil Hine takes the novice magician thru the stages of Initiation and beyond
- Daniel Pinchbeck�s psychedelic and magical experiences recounted in an extended excerpt from Breaking Open the Head
- Chapel of Extreme Experience author John Geiger on the harrowing psychic explorations of William Burroughs and Brion Gysin
- Calling Cthulhu: Techgnosis author Erik Davis on H. P. Lovecraft
- The Road to Excess sheds some light on a spooky little known incident in the life of Timothy Leary
- Robert Anton Wilson on the similarities between Crowley and Leary
- Tim Maroney�s beginner�s guide to Aleister Crowley
- Genesis P-Orridge�s personal memories of his magical education under William Burroughs and Brion Gysin (an instant classic!)
and his essay on British occult artist Austin Osman Spare
- Donald Tyson�s The Enochian Apocalypse. Were the seeds of the end of the world sown in the Elizabethan era?
- The Crying of Liber 49, Richard Metzger�s essay on rocket scientist and occultist Jack Parsons
- Julius Evola on Occult War
- Cameron: The Wormwood Star by Brian Butler tells�for the first time ever�of the life and times of Jack Parson�s �Scarlet Woman,� witch and Beatnik artist Marjorie Cameron
- Magical Blitzkrieg: Tracy Twyman and Peter Levenda on Nazis and the Occult
- Did fallen angels mate with humankind during the time of Noah? Boyd Rice on The Book of Enoch, one of the �forgotten books� of the Bible.
- Allen Greenfield�s Secret History of Witchcraft goes to the �roots� of Wicca and modern paganism. They might not be as deep as you think!
- Nevill Drury on Australian witch, Rosaleen Norton
- Michael Moynihan conducts a fireside chat with the Black Pope of the Church of Satan, Anton LaVey
- Season of the Witch by Gary Lachman examines the dark side of hippie and the �Age of Aquarius�
- Hakim Bey on Sorcery and Occult Terrorism Eclectic and "dark" enough?

I would also recommend Robert Anton Wilson's Prometheus Rising and Cosmic Trigger, Vol. 1 for intelligent, in-depth discussions of self-programming.

azi dahaka06-14-2004, 03:06 PM
For a relatively intelligent beginner, I would recommend Book of Lies: The Disinformation Guide to Magick and the Occult because it covers a huge amount of ground in a single tome

i second that...really good book...

Nalyd2306-14-2004, 04:21 PM
I'll second all three of Mmothra's recommendations.:D

[email protected], 12:23 PM
to answer this quite honestly, i agree with the first poster in asking yourself why are you're interested in the occult to begin with? is it because you want to learn things hidden from mainstream or conventional ways of thinking, is it because you want to turn to a form of spirituality where anythings possible instead of following dogmatic teachings and beliefs or is it you want power?
there are certain definitions for certain paths out there but to truthful, (in my eyes) real magic comes from deep within you and it's neutral; but powerful. it's up to you to choose to use this power for good or bad purposes. but be warned, every choice has it's consequences. good luck.

Otto von Skar06-16-2004, 01:24 PM
i second that...really good book...

I've seen this Disinformation book in the store, it looked interesting...I might pick it up.

Nalyd2306-16-2004, 04:06 PM
I've seen this Disinformation book in the store, it looked interesting...I might pick it up.Yeah Otto, it is pretty good. I consider it an overview of today's trends in Magick. It's got a wide range of things to explore as you can see from Mmothra's post. If you buy one new book on Magick, this would be a good place to start.

Mmothra06-16-2004, 04:15 PM
The Disinfo DVD is pretty fun, too...I got one for $20 on half.com.

Mister Six06-17-2004, 04:57 PM
Book of Lies and Prometheus Rising are both excellent places to look.

I would further recommend:
Condensed Chaos by Phil Hine
Liber Null and Psychonaut by Peter J. Carroll

Genesis P-orridge often focuses on the importance of mental disipline, so developing this trait is paramount for every mage. Martial arts and meditation are helpful in this regard. I myself follow a daily yoga practice and want to train in kung-fu or ninjitsu when I have better financial resources.

Mister Six

Mmothra07-20-2004, 03:26 AM
Faustian Pact06-18-2004, 05:04 AM
How do you know that your attempts are working? How do you know that you aren't imagining things or going mad? How do you tell if an experience has to do with magic? How do you know whether you have an aptitude for magic?

On some nights, during sleep, I get the feeling that I'm falling even when there is no dream. And I awaken at the end of my *fall*. What do you think that is?

Baphmetis06-18-2004, 06:26 AM
How do you know that your attempts are working? How do you know that you aren't imagining things or going mad? How do you tell if an experience has to do with magic? How do you know whether you have an aptitude for magic?
You know your attempts are working because they happen just as you had visualised. You also start to notice some interesting coincidences.

I wouldn't worry about madness. The only thing to worry about in magic is that you get so distanced from everyday reality that you lose touch with it completely. And I wouldn't worry about having an aptitude for magic either. It's like an art-form - no one starts off brilliantly, although some people do seem to grasp it better than others. You need to practice alot to experience real changes.

On some nights, during sleep, I get the feeling that I'm falling even when there is no dream. And I awaken at the end of my *fall*. What do you think that is?
I get that too, and I'm not sure what it is. I've heard others describe it as the beginning of astral travel. I won't jump to conclusions, but I'm sure someone else has an interesting answer.

I hope these answers are adequate, although I doubt they are.

Quidgyboo06-18-2004, 08:09 AM
I agree with what Baphmetis said, and will just add that my theory on the 'falling' feeling is similiar, though I simply see it as your concious mind detaching from the rest of you.

Caedo06-18-2004, 12:11 PM
A beginner here.

Thanks to Baphmetis and to Quidgyboo for their words.

I'm into psionics (telekinesis, etc.). After three months of practicing, I got one clear undeniable result. The good thing was that it wasn't surprising when it happened, it felt natural for it to happen by then. I'm not saying that attitude is a problem, this was only my case and I just wanted to share it.

And about the coincidences, I do have noticed several seemingly unrelated ones that compelled (sp?) me to take certain action. This has happened all my life, so I have this completely unbased-newbie-romantic theory that magic is in everyday life.

Bonne chance :)

Fr.NovumOrganum06-18-2004, 03:00 PM
How do you know that your attempts are working? How do you know that you aren't imagining things or going mad? How do you tell if an experience has to do with magic?
honestly, it would help if we knew what practices you were doing. are you looking to rest a sigil/talism/statement of will? effects of rituals? meditations? there are ways to 'test' if these are working or not. Generally, your magickal diary is a great place to start; answers are often found there.

but genereally, look for things that are added or subtracted from your life. issues resolved. past memories popping up and being dealt with. things like that happen as you move down the path.

Faustian Pact06-18-2004, 09:25 PM
I intepret dreams - just started. Didn't think it was possible until I went to some site that said that you have to program your mind to wake up after every dream and oddly, when I tried it, I recorded a total of three - first time in my life I ever remember having three in one night - all very odd ones that I doubt can have any sensible meaning - other than too much computer games and dramatic fantasy novels that is.:mrgreen:

And then I do runereading - a practice no one on this board seems to have. I don't think my intepretations are very good though.

Meditation, is that magic? I have always found meditation easy - just like shutting the brain off and letting imagination wander - like daydreaming (My daydreaming has gotten me scolded and ridiculed before so I'm not too proud of it :mrgreen: ).

I don't really keep a diary. One reason that I don't trust it not to fall into another persons hands (my occult interest and experiments are secret because my parents, who are freethinkers, are all out against anything occult). The second reason is because I'm too lazy... =)

So, how do you test these things?

Well, the day after I successfully did the aforementioned dream monitoring thingy was a very good day. Lots of wonderful things (important life milestone things) happened. But that's surely just a coincidence.

Frater C.U.G.06-18-2004, 11:32 PM

I don't really keep a diary. One reason that I don't trust it not to fall into another persons hands (my occult interest and experiments are secret because my parents, who are freethinkers, are all out against anything occult). The second reason is because I'm too lazy... =)

First reason - Just sign up to one of the free blog sites, and keep your diary there. (you can make it private on most of them)

Second reason - Just do it!


LadyHydralisk06-26-2004, 12:15 AM
The falling sensation is caused by associating your true self with your ego, your false self. When your spirit astrally travels "you" feel left behind and your mind split shows you that feeling of falling as your spirit ascends, as the ego cannot follow at higher vibrations. Letting go of material desires, or even desires altogether can stop this and help you on your journey.

The Rose06-26-2004, 12:53 AM
A beginner here.

I'm into psionics (telekinesis, etc.). After three months of practicing, I got one clear undeniable result. The good thing was that it wasn't surprising when it happened, it felt natural for it to happen by then.

You made something moved with your mind? Yeah right. In my opion and science and fact that is impossible at this time. Humens only uses 10% of their brains. With like years and years of practice, not 3 months, you might be able to change that to lets say 15%. To be able to move things with your mind or to bend spoons etc. you'll have to be able to use like 50%. Now there have been cases where people could do this but usually it was cause of a brain tumor or something like that and these people ended up dying with in a year or two at the most. If you have been able to do this I would suggest you go to the doctor and get a brain scan. How old are you like 12-15? Tell your mom to take you to a doctor.

The Rose06-26-2004, 12:56 AM
It doesn't matter if it is working or not if you haven't had enough studying to be doing spells in the first place. Anyone here who is not a beginner will agree with me that you have to study for a long time. Traditionly you have to study for a year and a day, but I would say at least 6 months.

Faustian Pact06-26-2004, 01:52 AM
Erm, when you say study what do you mean? Does it mean following some syllabi or doing some reading? Is there some text or other that is a must? Can you please help clarify 'study'? After all, its how much knowledge not how long right?

The Rose06-26-2004, 02:35 AM
Umm what grade are you in? If you don't know the meaning of study then I would guess elementary. Study = the process of applying the mind to acquire knowledge. As for just how much knowledge you need. Read my advice to beginners post. When you know what magick is, how it works, what energy is, how it works, the consequences of your actions, how to think every spell through to the very last details and by that I mean think of every way that the spell could back fire and word it just right, put the right image into your head while your doing it that would block as many bad things happening as possible and other things like that then you'll know if your ready.

Honestly just how much "knowledge" do you got? You read what one maybe two books and been to maybe a dozen web sites? Do you know the difference between knowledge and wisdom? You don't just have to have alot of knowledge to do spells. You need to turn that knowledge into wisdom before you do spells. Only time not reading web sites can give you wisdom. Honestly books have alot more knowledge in them then pagan web sites. I been to alot of web sites and read alot of books and books go more in depth then web sites. Web sites just goes over the basics and doesn't really get into any subject in depth. Especially when your a kid living with your parents it takes time to get books and read them. When your an adult you got a job and bills that make it hard to be able to get alot of books. So don't tell me that you have read over a 100 web sites and have alot of knowledge on the subject. Tell me you read a lot of books about it. Please read my advice to beginners thread. The reason anyone says study study study is for your own good. Most beginners jump right into spell work after only a couple of weeks and that's dangerous.

It's not how much knowledge or how much time, it's how much wisdom you have and wisdom is something that comes from time with a subject not how much you read about it.

LadyHydralisk06-26-2004, 03:07 AM
OMG TROLL! I called it! I win!

The Rose06-26-2004, 03:29 AM
Who you calling a troll? I said they should study before doing spells and he/she asked what do I mean by that and I told them and why I think this. I've say many times on the old forum and in my intro I'm blunt and I got a sharp tongue. How many more times must I say it before yall see it is my nature. I have also said lots of time I'm sorry if sometimes my tone is too sharp for you to handle. If you still think I'm a troll for being blunt and sharp tongue then call 1-800-CRY-BABY ext. WAAH

Radiant Star06-26-2004, 05:08 AM
On topic: it doesn't matter about counting the days until you can carry out an action, it is knowing yourself when you are ready and all I know is that there are some things that have come naturally to me and some things that I clearly am not ready for. I think you know.


Off topic:
Dont take it too personally The Rose, the Lady H has a dark sense of humour and an originality about her, however, like you she just says it as she sees it.

Caedo06-27-2004, 11:38 PM
Thanks, Rose

I'm 33. Look into pinwheels (some call them psiwheels), they're light, they balance themselves on a pin and they are good for beginners because they move very easily. My alledged experience happened last year - haven't tried it since then. I'm sorry it sounds impossible to you. Brain tumor... could happen, my mother died because of them and they say it's hereditary. I do get this weird pain in my head sometimes.

Why did I start? Well, I read that beginners should start learning about energy manipulation if they ever want to get any good at magic. So I searched up and found this site that you will hear a hundred times here called psipog.net. So learned about psiballs and started practicing them. I started doing that on september, last year, around the time i joined OF.

After three months of doing psiballs, I got a bit bored. I was no expert, and most of the times I got zilch. So i skipped into tk, built a small pinwheel, and tried to move it - spin it, actually. It was my first attempt at it, and it moved. Did I move it? I had not a clue. I double checked for drafts and then use a two folders to enclose it and make sure it was not my own breathing - pinwheels will move with anything.

I never made a second attempt. After that, I read up on meditation and the benefits of such are so much more appealing that I don't have any inclination to try again. Haven't achieved a good meditation session so far and it has been way longer.

So to restate the original question - how do I know if it works? I learn about it, from every point of view I can get. Then when I have a reasonable amount of input and interest, I try it myself.

Jake07-03-2004, 04:13 AM
I had dealt with coincidences before in my psychosis so I knew that there was a magickal world out there.

I picked up a book last November that told me about Sigils. I had made several vague attempts at magic before, but when I did this, I KNEW I was on the right track. The book said that you should concentrate your desire into a phrase. I had found a guy on a dating web site and decided I needed him to respond to me. Any Wiccan will tell you not to cast love spells, but I didn't care since no magick had ever worked for me before. So I made my desire to be "I Want Him." Next you take the phrase and get rid of all the vowels and duplicate letters. It becomes WNTHM. For me, the initials W and H, for "Want Him" seemed most significant. So I chose those to create my sigil symbol. The W and the H became a symbol that looked like a pair of wine glasses, which to me symbolized what I was truely looking for. I "charged" the sigil. The suggested method is masturbating while focusing on the sigil. Well, I'm on Paxil and even though it was a love sigil, that wasn't really the best option. So the method I developed is to take the desire and the picture and go through a stream of consciousness series of thoughts, anything that comes to mind relating to it, and just create lots of energy with those thoughts. The key is passion. Then, when you are ready to let go, stop, and forget about it. I didn't even draw my sigil out.

The book said that it GUARANTEED something would happen in 3 days, 3 weeks, or 3 months. I took 3 to be just a random number, but exactly 3 days later EVERYTHING happened, except for what I had asked for.

Things started happening. I knew they were significant, and it made me think of the magick, but I didn't see how it related. First a friend of mine responded from back in Wisconsin saying that she'd really like to start a business with me. Then a guy who I responded to in a newspaper told me he really liked a song I wrote. I was in high spirits then because I was kind of burned out, and as you may have guessed by my wish, lonely. I went home and I wrote another song. It was about this guy who I am good friends with but still held a lot of resentment for because of things that had happened. In high school I was depressed. He used to tease me about how I needed help and would look up mental health clinics on the internet and taunt me with them. Then once I finally got help he would say things about me being on medication. He would say "I wouldn't put that in my body" or "how do you know it's not the medication talking and not you?" The Alanis Morissette song "Thank U" was popular around that time, and I love Alanis, so he would quote/distort the line "How bout getting off of these antibiotics?" to "How bout getting off of these antidepressants?" He's really a loving person, but he had that dark side to him.

That night I went to a movie with my uncle. In the car I kept repeating the new melody and lyrics to the song I wrote about my friend expressing my anger. I was having a hard time remembering it because the radio was on. We got to the movie. We decided upon Gothika. The movie was about a woman in a mental institution. It reminded me of my time in the mental institution/psych ward and how people would misunderstand me. It also reminded me of another similar movie, i forget what it's called, the one with Wynona Ryder, I think it has a period in the title, where she is taunted by angelina jolie. When I had seen that movie it had reminded me of my friend taunting me. So there was a connection from me seeing that movie and having wrote the song -- both dealt with my friend. Then, in the movie, a theme started occuring. The words "Not Alone" started appearing everywhere. It started to occur to me that I was being told that I have all of these people in my life already, that I wasn't alone. That I had a friend who I could start a business with and people I could write songs with. This seemed like the perfect answer to my desire. I had said "I Want Him" and 3 days later I had gotten the answer "Not Alone." Things were still unresolved with the friend who had taunted me. During the movie I got a rush as I was realizing all this. When coincidences start happening, you tune in, and are able to find more coincidences more easily. They begin to seem like natural occurences. So I had my moment and just revelled in it all.

The movie ended and I started to calm down. We went back to the car, it was about 10 at night. Me and my uncle and his girlfriend talked for like a half hour in the car before turning it on and driving away. Then, right when my uncle turned the radio on, and I am not embelishing this at all, Alanis came blaring through "How bout them transparent dangling carrots?" It was "Thank U"! It immediately struck me how approppriate that lyric was for the situation. It was like this whole need for a guy was helping me realize that I was perfectly capable of making friends. It was a beautiful moment. The song perfectly captures the beauty of life. The lyrics don't make sense at face value, but I was able to tune into the song that night. "Thank you India. Thank you terror. Thank you disillusionment." I realized how all of those come into play, and with what great awe they are experienced. Then came the second verse. And it hit. "How bout me not blaming you for everything? How bout me enjoying the moment for once? How bout how good it feels to finally forgive you?" Wow.

To me it's not about the results or the answer. To me it's about the beauty in which the magick reveals itself. I'm in it for the wonder and awe. When I first looked into magick on the internet I was made to feel like I was greedy and naive because I just wanted to make stuff happen. I wasn't. I was just yearning spiritually. Just wanting to know that they are listening out there. That they care.

My only advice to you is just not to get caught in the madness. I learned this through 3 hospitalizations. The miracles are beautiful, but you can't explain them to ordinary people and expect them to believe you or understand why they are significant. Some of the most significant moments in my life have been dismissed as flukes by other people. And people will think you are crazy. But you won't think that of yourself, because you know the truth.

And another thing about that book I got the sigil exercise from... it didn't say wait. It didn't say study. It said do it. It said do it and something will happen. I know I will mature and learn how things work eventually. But if you are just reading about magick and not doing anything you will lose interest. And you will learn more once you know what you like.

I am a beginner myself.

Nalyd2307-03-2004, 04:58 AM
You NEVER "know" if your attempts at Magick are working. Magick is simply an art of interpretting events and creating meaning out of the meaningless void of the illusion of existence. Is that vague enough for everyone? Maybe I should make it a bit more occult for beginners.:shock:

Demonchild_Angel07-04-2004, 07:24 PM
This is a good question, and my answer to it is simple

it is the insane who understand the most, and the rest of us have not evolved to such a level as to be able to comprhend

Jake07-04-2004, 11:03 PM
it is the insane who understand the most, and the rest of us have not evolved to such a level as to be able to comprhend
I will agree to that. Never heard that said before.

Faustian Pact07-05-2004, 03:32 AM
If you actually stop to think about it, the line between magic and madness is thin and unsure. Pretty scary actually.

water07-07-2004, 07:49 PM
How do you know that your attempts are working? How do you know that you aren't imagining things or going mad? How do you tell if an experience has to do with magic? How do you know whether you have an aptitude for magic?

On some nights, during sleep, I get the feeling that I'm falling even when there is no dream. And I awaken at the end of my *fall*. What do you think that is?
You know your work is acheiving your goals because you see it happen. However, reality is a personal thing as every person's reality is different.

And it's only those that believe they are perfectly sane who are truly crazy. ;)



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